Tony Levatino Interview Part 1

Special Forces

This is the first section in a 2 Part Special Report based on an interview with Tony Levatino.

Tony Levatino appears in Covert Operations Essentials Training disk movie clips. You can see these in the Ranged Weapons Technical Section by clicking on Explore>Gear. Mr Levatino talks through the use of pistols, assault rifles, and sub machine guns and gives shooting range demonstrations for each weapon. For those of you without COE here is what Red Storm say about Mr Levatino.

Part 1 Contents

Law Enforcement Special Ops Units Real-life Situations

US Secret Service SAS / FSK Missing COE movie

 

Aggression : First off welcome to Aggression and thank you very much for taking the time and sharing your experiences with us. Can you tell us a little about yourself first? You have a web presence at centurion-intl which yields no information about your services or history. Is that intentional due to the secrecy of your work?

Mr Levatino : Rocky, first let me commend you on your website - It is a credit to the entire R6 community. About myself, well one of the reasons my webpage is so plain is that it is merely a placeholder for the email address I put on my business cards. Those people who need me, know how to get a hold of me by other means; others who inquire are usually referred. It is not that what I do is secret, it is just that I have a family and reputation to protect.

All my experience is in domestic law enforcement special operations. I entered the police academy at age 20 and have worked in the same organisation my entire career. All my family members are former military, and I have great respect for military operators, and claim many A Team, Ranger, and Seal Team members as friends and fellow professionals. I am a cop - and proud of it! I would encourage any of your readers to choose the same path. Here on the West Coast USA officers are making $100K a year and receive 85% of their salary in retirement at age 50....that is one reason I did not go into the military. When I have done recruitment I have told people: "What if I told you that you could have a job where your company gave you an $1,800 suit to wear, gave you a $50,000 car to drive, and allowed you to make life-and-death decisions affecting a great many lives." That job is not an executive at IBM, or a lawyer, but a police officer. An officer's uniform costs at least that much (uniform, weapon, belt, boots, bullet proof vest, badge); our cars are new, filled with computers, trackers, emergency equipment; and the life-and-death part, well that is a reality.

Aggression : Can you tell us which route led to you Special Ops ? Were you "recruited" or was it by application?

Mr Levatino : It is by application. Our Team has been in operation for almost 30 years and is extremely well respected in the SWAT Community. In order to be considered for this duty you must pass a Physical Agility Test, Medical, Weapons Proficiency Test, Psychological Examination, Background Investigation, Oral Board, Team Leader Assessment, and then be approved by the Chief of Police.

Aggression : Many missions in Rainbow Six are Hostage situations, and Red Storm describe you as having extensive Hostage Rescue experience. Can you tell us about any real-life Hostage situations you have been involved in, either active or advisory capacity?

Mr Levatino : Well, this is an area where I have to be a bit vague. This is not out of secrecy, because anything a domestic law enforcement agency does is supposed to be open to public scrutiny. I would rather talk about it over a pint of Guinness...my preferred beverage of choice. We resolve many situations peacefully, but others are not so peaceful. Even though we try to stay as low profile as possible, on our last rescue I ended up in a large color photograph on the front page of the newspaper walking across the street, all by myself carrying my rifle, with a very large caption at the top of the page proclaiming SWAT TEAM SHOOTS HOSTAGE-TAKER.

Now you just try to imagine what it is like to go pick your kids up from school after 2 million people have seen your smiling face beneath a caption like that....it is just a part of the job.

Aggression : So you don't have to wear balaclavas SAS style?

Mr Levatino : Yes, we do use Nomex Balaclavas for protection against explosive entry, fire, glass fragments, and for camouflage. They are hot and can obstruct your vision. I had just left our Command Post where we were briefed and had not pulled it over my face yet when they took the picture. The cameraman had a long-range lens - I pull it down a lot sooner as a result.

Unfortunately, Rogue Spear does not let us negotiate with Tangos, so they do not often get the chance to surrender.

Aggression : The RS tangos do sometimes take up a kneeling surrender position when its all going pear shaped - however I wouldn't like to lay odds on how many RS gamers actually leave the tango sitting there! In a multiple tango assault how would a surrendering tango be dealt with in the field, are they immediately removed or incapacitated somehow?

Mr Levatino : They are flex-cuffed and searched immediately. A flex-cuff is a large industrial type of wire-tie. They are then removed from the Area of Operation to the Command Post where an Intelligence Officer interrogates them. The SAS have their own version of this.

In real-life, only a relatively small percentage of military CT operatives ever see action with most spending their entire time training for the opportunity to be used. My Team has close to 1000 mobilizations throughout our existence doing rescues, dignitary protection, high-risk security operations, warrant services, less-lethal deployments, and riot control.

Aggression : I thought the US Secret Service was tasked with dignitary protection?

Mr Levatino : The US Secret Service does protect the President and former Presidents, but he is not the only dignitary. I bet you did not know that they also do counterfeit currency investigations? We consider a dignitary anyone who requires protection from a threat who might be in our jurisdiction.

When the President comes into our area, we liaison with the Secret Service to co-ordinate the visit. We provide close protection support and assist with site management. I have worked on visits for Reagan, Bush, and Clinton, but we also do other heads of state such as Congressmen, Governors, and for example Desmond TuTu who visited. We also provided dignitary protection services at a museum that exhibited the Chinese artefacts from the Forbidden City - we were required to wear tuxedos and mingle with the guests, but no champagne for us. The USSS are not the only ones who provide this service.

Aggression : Some CT games emphasis life preservation - even for tango's in hostage situations, is that true to life - or is the R6 strategy more accurate - shoot to kill?

Mr Levatino : Well, the justification for shooting someone is the preservation of life. We have the following priorities in these situations.

1) protection of the hostage, 2) protection of innocent bystanders, 3) protection of the operators (rescuers), and 4) protection of the hostage-taker (Tango or otherwise).

If you read Rainbow Six you will get a general flavor of how an operation is actually conducted. We will always attempt to negotiate to seek the peaceful release of the hostages. An actual entry into a location is fraught with danger. You always run the risk that you will not get to the hostages in time. Sometimes the breach at the entry point does not go well, and you may be delayed, or the hostage have been moved, or any number of variables. Since you can't predict all variables someone may be injured or killed.

Negotiation, if it does not secure release, allows you time to gather intelligence, wear down the hostage-taker, allows the Stockholm Syndrome to take affect, or lets you put your plan together and get into position. I never say that we shoot to kill. That may seem a bit odd, but it is the generally accepted law enforcement response since we live in such a litigious society.

The whole idea behind the resolution of a situation is to get the hostage-taker to "stop" his dangerous and aggressive behaviour. When we are forced to shoot a hostage-taker, the net effect of the bullet it to stop him from harming the hostages, bystanders, or us. Now, if the ultimate effect is death...then so be it. Bullets are notoriously poor in this regard, but we train to be accurate enough to place a single round in an eye socket with an MP5...that ensures a "stop" most often.

Aggression : In RS a head shot is known to be rewarded as the most effective take down, its interesting to hear that you actually go a step further and go for an even smaller target.

Mr Levatino : One of the movies you did not see was a demonstration of a 30 round magazine fired from a PDW on full-auto with all rounds staying within a 1" circle. If a Terrorist is hiding behind the head of a hostage and only showing half of his face, then you have to be very accurate with your shot.

I find that those missions which allow you to covertly enter a location and get as close to the room where the hostages are being held are the most realistic. One time we tirelessly negotiated with a lone-gunmen who claimed to have explosives, and then silently entered and jumped him on the couch when he fell asleep. This is not always an option in R6.

Aggression : Red Storm also state you are the Team Leader of a large Special Ops Unit. The US has scores of Counter terrorism agencies from the FBI to the CIA, are you at liberty to say which, if any of these agencies have employed your services?

Mr Levatino : I am one of 4 Team Leaders of a 32 man Team, and my rank is Sergeant. My primary deployable skill is Precision Marksman (Sniper). I am my agencies full-time training co-ordinator responsible for training all personnel in the use of handgun, shotgun, rifle, sub machinegun, diversionary devices (flashbangs), electronic weapons, less-lethal weaponry, chemical agents, and hand-to-hand tactics. Through my involvement in Special Operations I have had the opportunity to train with many fine organization....which I would like to remain nameless.

Aggression : There is often speculation regarding which Covert Special Forces are "The Best". According to COE Training disk the British SAS is accepted as being the Premier Special Ops Unit, although many members at Aggression would argue that Norway's FSK are the Elite! Have you any experience with CT units outwith the USA, which would you rank highly?

Mr Levatino : I have met members of Special Ops Units from quite a few places. I think that the phrase "The Best" is a relative term, because most units have specific missions. They can't all be experts in everything. For this reason sub-elements specialise in various specialities. Although the SEAL are mainly know for waterborne operations, they have units specialising in desert, artic, and jungle operations.

Now, the SAS have been in business for a very long time - 1942. They have realtime operational experience in many conflicts to include Northern Ireland and other speculated places (Libya). You have to remember that CT Units are still a military service with new personnel coming and going. For any CT Team maintaining proficiency is a difficult task - you are always having to relearn what you should already know. However, the SAS are dedicated to perfection and have been seen in "advisory" roles at may high-profile incidents trying to learn what happened to learn from it. We could talk about this for hours, everything from their 6 month rotation to the SP Squadron and CRW duty to equipment and probably never come to agreement.

The Forsvarets Spesialkommando (FSK) have been in business since 1982. They do a great job on oil rigs and have some experience in aircraft, trains, and buildings. They received initial training from the SAS, and were rumored to have even rotated through Northern Ireland. Although very skilled, they do not have the breadth of experience that the SAS have. If I had to pick between the two...I would pick the SEALS ;) (sorry...remember I am a yank)

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